Why The SEO World Is Full Of Shit – Part 1

by TheMadHat on January 15, 2008

Sometimes I hate the nonsense that goes on around the SEO circle. Two different people can have differentiating opinions that can both be backed up with relevant data. Instead of having an intelligent conversation, it turns into personal attacks that don’t have anything to do with the discussion.

Let’s take for example the recent post from John Andrews and his opinion on why this article should not have been published. Personally, in this case I agree with John. That’s not the normal type of content that goes on Search Engine Land. On the other hand, I may have posted it on this blog, and probably would not have been surprised to see it on blog with heavy blackhat content. That’s okay but I was surprised Danny posted it. To his credit he later apologized, and I respect him and his stance on the whole issue. His responses added to the conversation and he provided further explanations of why he posted and that he might have made a mistake. The real issue here is the angry attack from Rand Fishkin.

This blog post (and a similar one from another source) are pure hypocrisy, crass negative link (and attention) baiting and feed off the natural draw of drama on the Internet.

That part of the comment was fine. That’s your opinion, and although you didn’t really explain why, whatever. Here’s what I don’t get.

For shame, John. To think I had respected you, invited you to events and even recommended your services. On occasion, your posts and comments have made me question your integrity or worry that my respect for you was unfounded. Here, you’ve sealed the deal. “Trashy sensationalism that crossed ethical borders for the sake of short term audience attention grabbing” Repulsive, derisive filth (and obvious hypocrisy). Disgusting.

What’s wrong with saying “I disagree with you John and here is why I believe that post was good for the SEM community.” This “Rand Response” seems to be the norm rather than the exception. There seems to be more intelligent conversation on Perez Hilton sometimes. What’s the point of that response? It doesn’t add to the conversation in any way. Rand, why is it pure hypocrisy? Why is it attention baiting? It’s like grade school. You’re a sissy, na na na na. Blogs and communities are supposed exist to encourage intelligent conversation and not “fuck you eat shit and die”. Enough already.

John also mentioned you made it as if you personally knew him and then you questioned his integrity. I don’t think his values have a place in this conversation. Tell him he’s full of it, but say why. If we’re going to question each others ethics and integrity all day, you probably don’t want to get into that conversation with the way you attempt to portray yourself and your company.

That was a despicable thing to write and this blog post merely confirms that you’re seeking nothing but publicity and attention from your negative attacks.

Good job explaining why it was a despicable thing to write. Why was it a “negative attack”? Just because it’s a post that says something negative doesn’t make it despicable and doesn’t make it something done merely for attention.

I’m all for calling out people who have gained so called “Expert Status” when they post or say something I think is stupid or incorrect. It’s my opinion. They have every right to respond and offer their own opinion. Experts are questioned all the time, that’s what happens when you’re a public figure. Question me if you want, I’m sure there are a lot of people who think I’m full of shit, and I write this blog for others as well as myself. That pretty much means I’m open to criticism, otherwise I wouldn’t have a blog. Post your criticism and tell me why and I’ll respond and tell you why I’m not. If it has to do with search or whatever topics anyone thinks I’m wrong about I’ll either post a response and say “yea, I could have been wrong” or maybe expand on what I was trying to say or “I disagree and this is why”. What I’m not going to do is act like a twelve year old on the playground. I only act like that when you’re a real douchebag.

I’ve never met John or Rand. In my opinion both are very smart search marketers and I would like to meet them both. That being said, this statement also got me:

To think I had respected you, invited you to events and…

Invited him to events? So? Who are you…the Hugh Hefner of SEO? What’s that got to do with either post? Next time you write a post I’m going to comment that I used to like them but now I think you have ugly shoes…it makes about as much sense.

John, I think you handled this situation very well and very respectfully. Rand, you sound like you’re hanging out at digital point.

It’s shit like this that makes me want to turn off comments, shut down the internet, and become Amish. Let’s concentrate on making money, having fun doing business, helping each other out, not being afraid of having a different opinion, and drinking more beer. More beer is always good.

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{ 47 comments }

Mike - Twenty Steps January 15, 2008 at 10:03 am

I have to say that I agree with you on this one. I was shocked and amazed at the vitriolic nature of Rands comment. Let’s also factor in the negative response to the whole directory outing post on SEOmoz last year.

I don’t pretend to know the guy personally but I’ve always felt that he came across as being one of the nice guys. However this response to John and the fallout from the directory post presents some serious brand management issues, in my opinion.

I’m genuinely surprised by all of this.

TheMadHat January 15, 2008 at 10:34 am

Hey Mike. I’ve seen this countless comments around the blogosphere by people who are supposed to be “thought leaders” in the industry. I was surprised the first couple of times but not particularly any more.

People who blog themselves should know better than to act like that when posting comments.

theGypsy January 15, 2008 at 10:37 am

Awww come one man…. I call this entertainment buddy. There is no lack of the ‘old boys club’ running around pontificating on the exceptional state that is their perceived lot in the world of SEO.

I have been in the web development/marketing game since 1998… but didn’t’ really play in public until a year or so ago. So what? Well it means I have been watching from he sidelines shaking my head. It is the bullshit that is part of the industry that spurned me to get involved in the first place.

…and I have really enjoyed the show lately. Folks IMO tend to give the general populous more credit as far as ‘giving the industry a black eye0 crap though… very few people in my business circles know or care who Danny and co are… never mind linking post scandals… we are jacking ourselves off as an industry buddy…. So let them keep playing I say, for I am not the guardian of all things Search….

L8TR My brother…. (big one today huh mista?)

TheMadHat January 15, 2008 at 10:48 am

Entertaining or not, it wastes time that I don’t have trying to read through all that crap and find something useful. I know I’m a little hypocritical since I spent an hour writing a post about it, and some of my comments probably aren’t adding much to the conversation either.

Good point on people giving too much credit to the industry. I agree that we’re not quite there yet. I’d let them argue back and forth with irrelevant statements, but it wastes my time. There are already some people who’s comments I automatically skip. I won’t say who cause I don’t really want to have to listen to his comments here again.

spostareduro January 15, 2008 at 10:57 am

I have go with Dave on this one for sure..
It’s all good fun and plenty of publicity.
I mean..Ann Smarty and I just had a blast blowing off steam…
Drama has a way of breaking monotony my friend..

(Ann’s gonna love this one): “Great post!”

Nick Wilsdon January 15, 2008 at 11:02 am

>There are already some people who’s comments I automatically skip

Did you catch our Cuttlet-Block FF script Aaron? It’s seriously improved my experience of Matt Cutt’s blog. I just need a universal one now…

http://www.e3internet.com/tools/cuttlet-block/

TheMadHat January 15, 2008 at 11:13 am

lol…we’re even on the keyboards now Nick.

@spostareduro I agree a little controversy is good and arguing over what we think is correct and why is great. Name calling and inane back and forth is boring, childish, and pisses me off.

Wasn’t sure where exactly you were having a blow off steam match with Ann so I don’t know what category yours falls in. I for one don’t want to bore my readers or anyone else’s readers with it. See how your comment has a point? That’s good for the convo.

If you’d said “you’re wrong you filthy mongrel snake eating SEO thief” then that would have been different and I would have link spammed your site ;)

joe January 15, 2008 at 11:21 am

SEOmoz has always seemed like a cult to me. Gives me the creeps.

TheMadHat January 15, 2008 at 11:30 am

@joe – that’s going to be something I address in part 2. (not particularly SEOmoz, just the general topic)

john andrews January 15, 2008 at 12:55 pm

Sorry for the wasted time MadHat. I did my best to keep it all inside one post, and if the comments posted all day weren’t so “voluminous” I would have done what I wanted — posted a new, interesting SEO post to help things MoveOn.

I agree there is an entertainment factor (learning is fun; learning is more fun in small groups) but I assure you finding that vitriol from Randy was not fun. Why Randy pretended to know me just to qualify his dissing me… I have no clue. It’s like coming home half drunk after an awesome party and finding a steaming pile on the carpet where your ottoman usually serves you. You want to ignore it, but it stinks too bad. You want it cleaned up, but why should you have to clean it? And then you get angry, wondering who had the nerve to crap in your living room and perhaps more irritating, why did they do it?

Danny Sullivan January 15, 2008 at 1:08 pm

Hey Aaron–

Posted this on Sphinn but wanted to include it here, too.

I appreciate that you respected my stance on the entire issue. Part of that stance was asking if we could push the reset button overall and move on. That would mean not trying to dissect if Rand was fair to John; John was fair to Rand; I was fair to John; John was fair to me and so on.

Instead, that’s what we get in part 1 – a dissection of Rand. And we know where that will go inevitably. Those who agree John was hard done by will weigh in. Then those who think Rand was OK with what he posted will weigh in. And then ironically, we to some degree get more of exactly what you doesn’t like.

Personally, part 2 sounds more interesting: the general idea that there are “cults” or “communities” out there.

TheMadHat January 15, 2008 at 1:21 pm

Danny,

Thanks for your input. I know I singled out Rand in this post, I had to single out someone to illustrate the point that I see it happening all the time.

I’d be happy to push the reset button on this particular issue (the wired post, the rand response, ect) but my opinion on the same kind of useless attack comments happening all the time stays the same.

I knew it would turn somewhat into rand vs john and who did what but an example had to be made to place emphasis on what I was trying to get across. Let’s forget the wired issue…it still happens all the damn time.

Stay tuned for part 2…i’ve been pondering it for a while now. Thanks for stopping in.

TheMadHat January 15, 2008 at 1:39 pm

@John

I agree, it would have pissed me off too and I would have had a similar reaction. That same situation has occurred here before and I handled it about the same…as in no need for name calling and talking about my mama ;)

I thought you handled it fine. Like I said before, wish there was less of that and more “10 ways to hit the digg home page”….errr wait a sec, that’s drivel too :D

Michael VanDeMar January 15, 2008 at 1:49 pm

Aaron, this is par for the course for Rand, but hardly is indicative of the SEO industry in general. Just because one man scammed his way to the top should not reflect on the industry as a whole.

There are quite a few examples of Rand behaving as if he cannot process simple logic, and reverts to baseless insults:

http://smackdown.blogsblogsblogs.com/2007/08/06/rand-fishkin-the-troll-defense/

Anthony a.k.a. OldSchool January 15, 2008 at 1:59 pm

“ironically” these things also end up dragging out in comment threads. Sorry, I couldn’t resist.

I will, however, give you credit for what may end up being the quote of the year: “It’s shit like this that makes me want to turn off comments, shut down the internet, and become Amish”. (you can’t escape the matrix, I mean the Internet… even the Amish are online) :)

TheMadHat January 15, 2008 at 2:15 pm

@Michael – I personally don’t necessarily think he scammed his way to the top. He does have some good knowledge about a lot of things in the SEO world. He also has some things I think are really dumb, but again this wasn’t really a Rand post. I think comments like that and the one’s he has made in the past are dumb and people should think about it a little more before posting shit like that.

I do think it’s indicative of a lot of the SEO industry in general. Every time one holier than thou person gets questioned about something they start the flaming and the dissing of mothers.

PS: Thanks for the plugin advice, works like a charm!

@OldSchool – I know…I’d be busy working on part 2 if I could stop responding adding more validity and hypocrisy to the whole post :)

Quote of the year? Sweet. Do I get a badge or something?

Nate January 15, 2008 at 2:34 pm

You get a free beer.

seanmag January 15, 2008 at 2:48 pm

Wow! Fun happenings in the SEO world. Thank God for RSS – I can’t wait for the sequel. I hope you won’t keep us waiting too long.

I’m pretty sure this is my first comment on your blog Aaron. Great writing style. I came upon it through the Sphinn post. Despite all the negative crap, the ray of light is that I find another good SEO blog.

I’m one of those creepy cult members from over at SEOmoz. :) I’m relatively new in search, so SEOmoz was a great intro and there are definitely some quality people over there – not to mention some quality content and tools. But of course, neither Rand nor SEOmoz is not the elixir for all things search. Then again, what single site or person is?

As for Rand’s rant, while I wouldn’t defend it, I do have to say (no offense), it’s a pretty amusing read. But then, I have no emotional attachment, so I can pretty much just appreciate the extreme heights of rhetoric achieved!

I suspect that once cooler heads prevail, everyone will get back in the sandbox (or hopefully out of it) and play nice together again. I say that from a lifetime of experience of opening mouth and inserting foot. That’s the beauty of us creative types – sometimes we get a little too creative!

We can probably all agree (maybe even begrudgingly – Michael VanDeMar), that there are some legitimate reasons that each of you guys holds a relatively prominent place in the search marketing world. You deliver value. Looking forward to more of your stuff!

TheMadHat January 15, 2008 at 2:56 pm

@seanmag – Thanks for stopping by and commenting. Glad you enjoy my blog. Being relatively new in search SEOmoz is an excellent resource for you. Just be sure to think for yourself and don’t believe everything you read (there, here, or anywhere else). Always test the theories for yourself.

As for it being an amusing read, it could be until it happens to you then it’s not so amusing anymore, so I know where the angst is coming from.

Everyone will settle down and play nice…We’re all mature adults (well, the majority of us anyway – myself not included). I like to call these types of posts SEO market corrections :)

john andrews January 15, 2008 at 3:23 pm

I look forward to the Part II, and I have a possible suggestion.

When considering the cults, consider the quality of the SEO/SEM training/development that arises from the cult. In my view, the culture of these groups breeds a defined brand of practitioner (obvious?) but also an associated quality of practice… unfortunately usually tied to a bias. It is that quality aspect that (IMHO) drives the need for external validation, which reinforces the cult (You believe what I believe so we’re BOTH right isn’t that cool).

Since none of us can easily compare SEO/SEM quality between us (or between “seo religions”), any comparison becomes an argument, which is best won by a popularity vote (biggest army/biggest mouth wins).

Inspect the speaker panels supported by a particular group, try to measure quality, and you might see what I see — there is more need for cultishness when there is less successful individual practice. More need for “joint ventures” correlates with more cultishness. Certainly if you make your money from Premium Memberships (as opposed to search engine marketing) you need to foster a cult if you intend to get wealthy.

I’m a wallflower at most conferences not because I’m shy. I meet the bestest SEOs at the conference in the corners and along the walls. And that’s the best *at the conference*. I’m pretty sure the best are not at the conferences.

SlightlyShadySEO January 15, 2008 at 4:14 pm

*Sigh*
It’s a shame when the SEO world descends back into the depths of middle school.

TheMadHat January 15, 2008 at 4:28 pm

@john – excellent points…sounds like you could write the post for me :)

I’ll be focusing on the mob mentality associated with blogs and communities, particularly the “a-list variety”. So and so said this so it’s etched in stone and the two hundred people that are “followers drinking the kool-aid” will lynch anyone who disagrees.

I’m I certainly with you on the conferences. The best people are at the bar in small groups, and the best of the best are probably at home making money.

seanmag January 15, 2008 at 5:36 pm

“Just be sure to think for yourself and don’t believe everything you read (there, here, or anywhere else). Always test the theories for yourself.

As for it being an amusing read, it could be until it happens to you then it’s not so amusing anymore, so I know where the angst is coming from.”

I couldn’t agree with you more Aaron and I appreciate the good advice. Over the last several months, I’ve read a great many blogs. Fortunately, I’ve been around long enough (in business), that I don’t really drink anyone’s Kool-Aid. Although I try not be too much of a cynic, I do approach individual opinions with a healthy amount of skepticism. While I enjoy participating in the SEOmoz community, by and large I view it as a newbie place to learn and more of an SEO social site than anything else.

As for Rand’s recent rant, I found it unprofessional and something for which he will end up taking a reputation hit. Regardless of whether anyone agrees with his position, I suspect most would have to agree that his rhetoric was abhorrent and motives transparent. That said, overall I still respect the guy and feel that he delivers a bunch of value to the search community.

On a separate note, I look forward to your commentary on the community/cult mindset that typically surrounds large groups. I have been thinking of writing something along those lines. Another “C” word I would add to that list is “clique”, as one can easily determine who is accepted into that group by the commenting coming from the “owners” of a community.

Continued success, Sean

Hobo January 15, 2008 at 5:41 pm

Ha Ha John I’ve been to parties like that too. I f I found anything like that it was usually my room-mate. :)

Rebecca Kelley January 15, 2008 at 7:36 pm

A cult? Really?

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have some Kool-Aid to mix…

Rebecca Kelley January 15, 2008 at 7:36 pm

Ah, damn you MyBlogLog and your stupid Rand avatar!

For the record, this is Rebecca, not Rand.

TheMadHat January 15, 2008 at 7:56 pm

Hehe, go mix the Kool aid ;)

Cherry flavor please!

Lydia January 15, 2008 at 11:22 pm

“Great minds think alike” – I don’t think so!! That’s what makes SEOs so special. The fact that the good ones can get the job done in different ways and processes (the few that can’t are excused from this part of the discussion for today – sorry!).

The beauty of all of you is the varying bits of information you give to us that we see all around the online community.

So, take a deep breathe, enjoy your readings and writings. We can all learn a lot from each other if we can share and play nice.

Thanks, Aaron, for saying something!

TheMadHat January 15, 2008 at 11:41 pm

Thanks for your comment Lydia. It sometimes can be a little awkward disagreeing with such celebrities (yea that was an exaggeration). but still it helps when I don’t get completely shot down.

Also, your point that we can learn a lot from each other is right on the money. Everyone wants to be successful but most people I know are willing to share. All you have to do is ask. There’s not need to call my dog ugly :)

(PS I have a pug, so yea it’s ugly)

(PSS I also have a Rhodesian Ridgeback…aka african lion hunter…so mess with one, get mauled by the other)

(PSSS the Rhodesian Ridgeback is actually a wuss and the little pug could probably kick its ass)

)PSSSS that’s too many S’sss)

Adam January 16, 2008 at 2:38 am

I’ve thought about some of the “cult” aspects before. I’ve noticed it for years through all the events and forums out there but it seems to have gone up a notch in recent years. All this bickering whether you hangout at Threadwatch, WMW, Digital Point, Wicked Fire, Seomoz and on and on. All have different personalities and cultish aspects. People fallout and go somewhere else.

As previously mentioned, the industry is like school and perhaps we don’t deserve much respect from outside of it. Someone may start a website, get a few clients, speak at some conferences and they are a mini-celebrity but in the end, like Rand, still haven’t matured. At the same time that I’m entertained when talking with Rand in person and hearing him speak at conferences, I’ve always had a strange feeling about Seomoz. I don’t pass that resource on to others but if I did, I’d be embarrassed right now. Things others do sometimes come back on us and I expect a certain level of professionalism and discourse with those around me depending on the circle we are in. He’s well on his way to being the Bill O’Reilly of SEO. Spinning away in his own no-spin zone.

As an example, drinking is great in it’s place but I have to wonder what clients and corporate execs think when they go to things like SES, SMX and Pubcon and hear from speakers talking about how smashed they got or how late they stayed out all the time. Personalities make jokes and give winks and nods to select others just like school. Inside jokes that exclude 95% of the people in a place. Wouldn’t impress me if I was an outsider looking in. There are places and times for everything. The industry is maturing and evolving but some of the people within it are not.

Another example is that I really respect and like Danny Sullivan and enjoy the Daily Searchcast and the conferences. But I can’t tell anyone about it professionally because a third or more of the banter is too personal and silly to anyone on the outside looking in. It’s not yet the industry newscast that it could someday be. Wouldn’t be as much fun, but it could be big.

Ben Potter January 16, 2008 at 4:43 am

Great post! I am amazed at the immaturity shown by certain bloggers at certain times – it really is playground stuff! Come on guys, have you not got work to be doing instead of wasting time on petty arguments!!?? I think my clients would be pretty p*ssed off if they saw me spending my valuable time, and their money, on such trivia!!

Danny Sullivan January 16, 2008 at 7:09 am

Adam, thanks for listening, and you shouldn’t worry about the banter on the show. That’s for you. I write — and I suspect (hope) you find most of my writing to be accessible to anyone. That you don’t need to be an industry insider to get it.

The podcast for me, yeah — it’s a chance to open up, to joke and have fun with listeners and the community. I deliberately wanted to have fun rather than work — and the early on feedback was many people wanted it to be that way.

I disagree with John that the best are not at the conferences. Most speakers at conferences are not paid, and many of the best who do speak don’t need the extra attention or business. They are there because they also like to lead and teach. I know, because I have talked to many speakers over the years. I’ve had “little” SEOs with great knowledge put in a great pitch and be thrilled to have a chance to share that knowledge with others.

If you’re a pro, it’s easy to dismiss stuff at conferences as being rubbish or nothing new. If you’re new to the space, trying to get educated — or already in it and actually learning new stuff — it’s a different matter.

You only need to look at PubCon to understand that “the bar” is not enough for some people. That’s where PubCon started, right — Brett and WebmasterWorld folks saying years ago exactly like what John and others are saying now, the best stuff happens in the bar (or the pub, which is where it got its name). But funny thing — it got formal. And one reason, as Brett told me, was that people in the bar who came were asking him to do more formal things, because it turns out it’s not easy for everyone to learn in a bar environment.

Is there bias in what goes on, whether it be online training, someone’s blog, a conference or whatever. Of course — exactly right, there are different philosophies of SEO. My own approach to this over the years has been to try and be inclusive of everyone. That’s why I get to have Doug Heil yammer on and on about how everyone I have at a conference is a spammer. My view was hey, if someone’s blackhat, you’d still better understand what they have to share with you as well as a whitehat, so that you have a full view of the industry. Education is good. And I trust that people are grown-up enough not to be mindless sheep and make their own decisions.

seanmag January 16, 2008 at 12:11 pm

(PSS I also have a Rhodesian Ridgeback…aka african lion hunter…so mess with one, get mauled by the other)

Ah, The Rhodesian Ridgeback! Perhaps (at least in my opinion), the coolest dog on the planet. As you pointed out – “A lion hunter that wouldn’t hurt a fly”.

Here’s a pic of my old friend Brooks. Long since gone, but a great friend to the end.

http://www.serengeti-ridgebacks.com/photos_n_images/Shows/brooks.jpg

Rae January 17, 2008 at 9:56 am

“Part 1″ – Jesus A, that’s like doing a cliffhanger at the end of a season on a television show… don’t make us wait til fall for the rest! ;-)

TheMadHat January 17, 2008 at 10:42 am

:) I have too keep everyone salivating a little…tomorrow might be your lucky day.

Dr. Homer January 18, 2008 at 10:11 am

Great post! Thank you ;)
Do you really think that black hat seo is dead?

TheMadHat January 18, 2008 at 10:22 am

Dr. Homer….Black hat SEO will never die.

Ann Smarty January 20, 2008 at 9:40 am

Ok, I am a bit late to the party but just could not resist the temptation. Like Seanmag “I’m one of those creepy cult members from over at SEOmoz”. I may sound immature too (sorry) but I can’t possibly spend half of the day at the community unless I sincerely like it. So I am for Rand here :) Here are my points: rand is a person and (well, as far as I can judge) he usually gets very emotional when someone criticizes the person he respects. So what? :) Being a “cult” doesn’t make hime less a person than you are. And seriously, are your own comments always so well-thought and adding “value”? I guess not, so why so much attention to the damn comment?

@spostareduro: Lol…

tatil January 23, 2008 at 8:53 am

“Part 1? – Jesus A, that’s like doing a cliffhanger at the end of a season on a television show… don’t make us wait til fall for the rest!

TheMadHat January 23, 2008 at 12:58 pm

I know, I know…I’m in LA at Domainfest so I haven’t had time yet. I’ll get to it soon!

Melanie Phung February 20, 2008 at 11:21 am

It’s not just the individual communities that are cult-ish. The whole damn industry is insular with a tendency to spend almost all of its time gazing at its collective navel. Celebrities/personalities/in-fighting blah blah… meanwhile the rest of the world not only doesn’t care, but doesn’t even know what SEO is (despite what we’d all like to think).

While all the insider talk and “secrets” serve to make the people involved feel really cool, SEO isn’t going to gain respect as a lasting discipline until all the “secrets” are out in the open and reputations are built on execution.

cep telefonlar? March 14, 2008 at 3:43 am

Great post! I am amazed at the immaturity shown by certain bloggers at certain times – it really is playground stuff.

benjy May 1, 2008 at 1:40 pm

Funny title. :O)

yeah, seo folks tend to bicker like children, just like every other group of people. Nothing new.

Shit SEO June 23, 2008 at 3:14 pm

S.E.O is a blackart sometimes and because on SERP’s changes things can not always goto plan, especially with the semantic searches and WEB 2.0 networks that can alter things on a daily timescale as opposed to years ago when things were far slower.shit seo is just something we have to put up with I personally think.

London July 25, 2008 at 1:03 pm

The thing about SEO is that there is the same goal but many routes and because of external influence there is no 100% correct route, you need to work around your competition, the engines, the market.

cbhost February 18, 2009 at 9:20 pm

There is only so much SEOing you can do to your new site after that, its all about social engineering your way to getting links. You can SEO your way to the first page of the SERPs on plenty of bs keywords with not a whole lot of searches and NO amount of SEO will ever get your site to page 1 on a very competitive search where established sites rule. I would love to see someone whitehat SEO their way to the first SERP result of say viagra, ringtones, web hosting etc…WIll never happen

Luther F. Rontside May 14, 2009 at 8:58 pm

Rand actually is harmful as far as the image of the SEO world because he reinforces the stereotype of Internet types being mean-spirited brats. He tends preach alot about integrity and online ethics and fairness but that seems to be a farce as well.

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